Split Thread the TM and anti-semitism

JSanderO · Mar 16, 2015

This may be off topic...but I came across this quote from The Atlantic:

"Yet the new anti-Semitism flourishing in corners of the European Muslim community would be impoverished without the incorporation of European fascist tropes. Dieudonné M’bala M’bala, a comedian of French Cameroonian descent who specializes in Holocaust revisionism and gas-chamber humor, is the inventor of the quenelle, widely understood as an inverted Nazi salute. His followers have taken to photographing themselves making the quenelle in front of synagogues, Holocaust memorials, and sites of past anti-Jewish terrorist attacks. Dieudonné has built an ideological partnership with Alain Soral, the anti-Jewish conspiracy theorist and 9/11 “truther” who was for several years a member of the National Front’s central committee. Soral was photographed not long ago making the quenelle in front of Berlin’s Holocaust memorial."

Oystein · Mar 16, 2015

JSO, links are always nice:

Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe? By Jeffrey Goldberg. The Atlantic, April 2015.

Perhaps we should open a dedicated thread about the TM and anti-semitism would be a good idea - if there doesn't exist one already.

Haven't read the name Alain Soral, I think. But I have in general never really come across the French branch of the TM. The French Wikipedia article on Alain Soral mentions 9/11 only in passing, the English and German versions not at all. A Google search for "alain soral 11 septembre" delivers some videos and articles, but I am not going to parse the French.

LSSBB · Mar 16, 2015

Oystein said:
JSO, links are always nice:

Is It Time for the Jews to Leave Europe? By Jeffrey Goldberg. The Atlantic, April 2015.

Perhaps we should open a dedicated thread about the TM and anti-semitism would be a good idea - if there doesn't exist one already.

Haven't read the name Alain Soral, I think. But I have in general never really come across the French branch of the TM. The French Wikipedia article on Alain Soral mentions 9/11 only in passing, the English and German versions not at all. A Google search for "alain soral 11 septembre" delivers some videos and articles, but I am not going to parse the French.

I agree on a dedicated 9/11 & antisemitism thread however I'd just like to note that with Clayton Moore being banned, it will be missing ... something.

pgimeno · Mar 16, 2015

[OT]

Oystein said:
JSO, links are always nice:

Not only that, it's a requirement of the membership agreement:

Darat said:
E2

We have adopted a policy of treating all published material as if it was copyrighted regardless of its actual legal copyright status. This includes articles, images and other media. Under this rule content may be posted within the doctrine of "fair use" (see: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter9/9-a.html) - the quoting of brief portions of articles, books, emails, or bulletin board messages, relevant to discussion, is permitted. All quoted material should be credited to the original author or publisher and a link provided (when available) to the original work. It is not possible to declare precisely how much material may be quoted, as it will vary from article to article. We suggest quoting no more than a paragraph. Images and photographs are more problematic in that usually the entire image will be subject to copyright however if they are used as part of, or to make substantial criticism they may be used. But please be aware that such images may still be removed, especially if they contain a copyright notice in the image.

[...]

Orphia Nay · Mar 17, 2015

We've had a couple of threads that were 5 pages or more on twoof and antisemitism.

Not sure whether we should bump one of them or start a new one.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157577

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165737

kmortis · Mar 17, 2015

This thread was created from some posts in this thread.

Posted By: kmortis

LSSBB · Mar 17, 2015

Orphia Nay said:
We've had a couple of threads that were 5 pages or more on twoof and antisemitism.

Not sure whether we should bump one of them or start a new one.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=157577

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165737

I would just like to say that I looked at those threads and they are kind of old. Anecdotally, I get a feeling that the dynamic has changed. My gut feel is that anti-semites would tend to stick with the movement more than the "question askers", since there aren't really many unanswered questions beyond the level and extent of Saudi involvement, and names redacted for security or privacy reasons.

That said, I look forward to a more evidence based estimate and analysis of anti-semitic involvement.

Oystein · Mar 17, 2015

What is this thread going to be about?
Personally, I have recently come across what feels like a growing number of statements and posts by 9/11 Truthers that blame Israel, Mossad, Americans of Jewish decent. This coincides with me spending more time on Facebook. I can't say for certain that this sort of anti-"Israel" tenor has indeed increased - maybe it's been that way in 9/11-groups on Facebook for a long time and only I didn't see it. I can't say that this has become more prominent on the "old" sites that I used to check out like 911Blogger.

I can't tell if anti-semitism is mainstream, or if it's just a loud minority.

What I am interested in is getting a feel for how many supporters of groups like AE911T are at least borderline a-s, but that is, in general quite difficult to assess. I believe AE911T would censor blatantly a-s statements.

What about leaders, like those on the "911 Consensus Panel"?

Playing Games · Mar 18, 2015

Oystein said:
What is this thread going to be about?
Personally, I have recently come across what feels like a growing number of statements and posts by 9/11 Truthers that blame Israel, Mossad, Americans of Jewish decent. This coincides with me spending more time on Facebook. I can't say for certain that this sort of anti-"Israel" tenor has indeed increased - maybe it's been that way in 9/11-groups on Facebook for a long time and only I didn't see it. I can't say that this has become more prominent on the "old" sites that I used to check out like 911Blogger.

I can't tell if anti-semitism is mainstream, or if it's just a loud minority.

What I am interested in is getting a feel for how many supporters of groups like AE911T are at least borderline a-s, but that is, in general quite difficult to assess. I believe AE911T would censor blatantly a-s statements.

What about leaders, like those on the "911 Consensus Panel"?

I see anti-semitism associated more with 911 Truthers and CT'rs. That's still a small minority group of people to me at least. Facebook, in particular, I see a lot of it, especially on AE911 and a few other pages myself. In fact someone was just banned from a group due to bigotry.
It depends how you look at it.

Unfortunately, a lot of them are ignorant and uneducated, which I'm sure you are aware of. They see all kinds of posts blaming the evils of the world on Jews and they follow, without doing any research, they're led to believe. Anti-semitism was the first thing I noticed when I began researching CTs and 911 CTs three years ago.

Oystein · Apr 3, 2015

Richard Gage, in a personal message, now associates himself with a holocaust denier. Found this on Kevin Barrett's "No Lies Radio" website:

http://noliesradio.org/archives/97096

Program starts off with Richard Gage right at the beginning: "Hi! This is Richard Gage, AIA, with Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and you are listening to No Lies Radio"

You never have to dig deep to find anti-semitic dreck. Right now, the current next show is advertised thusly:

No Lies Radio said:
Coming Up Friday, April 3rd...
Kevin Barrett's Truth Jihad Radio

EXCLUSIVE BROADCAST:
Tom Mysiewicz: Ted Cruz & his NWO sponsors prepare “end time wealth transfer”
[Image: "BIBI SATANYAHU ORDERED THE HIT ON THE WTC"]
Are the Christian Zionists and their Jewish Zionist financial backers getting ready to blow up the economy…and, along with it, the world? Are they planning an “end times wealth transfer” in which they, the self-appointed “priests,” seize “the spoils of war”?

Tom Mysiewicz says Ted Cruz and his Zionist-psycho brigade are doing a war dance under the blood moons of 2015. Tom writes:

“Christian Zionists believe 2016 is the start of the so-called ‘messianic era.’ Palestinians will be expelled from Israel; a new temple will be constructed on Temple Mount, and animal sacrifices will be resumed. (The recent Israeli election must have given them great encouragement.) For this reason, a blemish-free red heifer is reported to be under guard in the U.S. to be used to commence temple sacrifice in 2016, when it will be three years old.iv Accomplishing this will take much wealth and military action on the part of ‘anointed allies.'”

If it sounds crazy, that’s because…THEY ARE.

Sounds crazy...

dudalb · Apr 13, 2015

Oystein said:
Richard Gage, in a personal message, now associates himself with a holocaust denier. Found this on Kevin Barrett's "No Lies Radio" website:

http://noliesradio.org/archives/97096

Program starts off with Richard Gage right at the beginning: "Hi! This is Richard Gage, AIA, with Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, and you are listening to No Lies Radio"

You never have to dig deep to find anti-semitic dreck. Right now, the current next show is advertised thusly:

Sounds crazy...

Kevin Bartett's calls his radio show "No Lies Radio"????

:i:

Jango · Apr 14, 2015

Oystein said:
What is this thread going to be about?
Personally, I have recently come across what feels like a growing number of statements and posts by 9/11 Truthers that blame Israel, Mossad, Americans of Jewish decent. This coincides with me spending more time on Facebook. I can't say for certain that this sort of anti-"Israel" tenor has indeed increased - maybe it's been that way in 9/11-groups on Facebook for a long time and only I didn't see it. I can't say that this has become more prominent on the "old" sites that I used to check out like 911Blogger.

I can't tell if anti-semitism is mainstream, or if it's just a loud minority.

What I am interested in is getting a feel for how many supporters of groups like AE911T are at least borderline a-s, but that is, in general quite difficult to assess. I believe AE911T would censor blatantly a-s statements.

What about leaders, like those on the "911 Consensus Panel"?

Which is a mistake to do and is likely the result of already established anti-semitism or enemy conditioning (like Press TV) that has created anti-semitism in people unable to distinguish fact from propaganda.

Israel's proximity to 9/11 is an interesting aspect to the event, though. It is another area where much fragmentary information exists and not many conclusions. From everything I've read and seen, Israel was not operationally involved but they did serve as a lookout as did many other country's security services, which isn't evidence of Israeli operational complicity, but is for the LIHOP hypothesis.

Oystein · Apr 14, 2015

Jango said:
Which is a mistake to do and is likely the result of already established anti-semitism or enemy conditioning (like Press TV) that has created anti-semitism in people unable to distinguish fact from propaganda.

Israel's proximity to 9/11 is an interesting aspect to the event, though. It is another area where much fragmentary information exists and not many conclusions. From everything I've read and seen, Israel was not operationally involved but they did serve as a lookout as did many other country's security services, which isn't evidence of Israeli operational complicity, but is for the LIHOP hypothesis.

Israel gets singled out, and this "fragmentary" evidence (I take that as a euphemism for "insufficient" bordering on "non-existent" evidence) gets interpreted way out of proportion not on its own merit but on ideological predisposition of CTers.

Jango · Apr 14, 2015

Oystein said:
Israel gets singled out, and this "fragmentary" evidence (I take that as a euphemism for "insufficient" bordering on "non-existent" evidence) gets interpreted way out of proportion not on its own merit but on ideological predisposition of CTers.

1. There was some stonewalling in the wake of 9/11 about Israel.

2. These facts do get blown out of proportion because they're fueled by racism.

Oystein · Apr 14, 2015

Jango said:
1. There was some stonewalling in the wake of 9/11 about Israel.

2. These facts do get blown out of proportion because they're fueled by racism.

1. There was some stonewalling in the wake of 9/11 about Argentina and Bangladesh, too

2. Anti-semitism is a special and peculiar case of racism. What's your point?

chrismohr · Apr 14, 2015

Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat. Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
I DID get antiSemitic crap in my email box, but haven't seen any of this for about five years. It's there in 911 Truth but it's not endemic, in my experience.
And no, I won't dignify Holocaust denial theories with a debate. They make me puke.

JSanderO · Apr 14, 2015

Israel is a theocracy pretending to be a democracy and so it shares some attributes with Iran for example. Israel has done some very aggressive things and appears to be set on annexing all the occupied territories... Why are they occupied in the first place? Obviously the Arabs are no thrilled that Israel moved in and as the USA is Israel's staunchest allies all sorts of muddying of thinking ensues.

Humans are racists. Not all... but many.

Oystein · Apr 14, 2015

Of course the policies of the Israeli government are as much a legitimate target of scrutiny as any other government's.

However, the big question is: Why bring up Israel in the first place? Why are we - why are truthers! - even dropping the word "Israel" here? The terrorists were not Israelis, and any imagined "inside job" can't be Israel's job since Israel isn't inside.

So EITHER you have real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks.

OR you start from a premise that Israel is inside the US government, and/or inside world terrorism, and/or Israel is a usual suspect whenever something really bad happends.
Such a premise is anti-semitic.

Since I am not aware of any real, tangible, unambiguous evidence that directly links Israel to the 9/11 attacks, I am left with only one choice when the word "Israel" is dropped into a 9/11 debate.

Jango · Apr 15, 2015

chrismohr said:
Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat. Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
I DID get antiSemitic crap in my email box, but haven't seen any of this for about five years. It's there in 911 Truth but it's not endemic, in my experience.
And no, I won't dignify Holocaust denial theories with a debate. They make me puke.

Yes.

Jango · Apr 15, 2015

JSanderO said:
Israel is a theocracy pretending to be a democracy and so it shares some attributes with Iran for example. Israel has done some very aggressive things and appears to be set on annexing all the occupied territories... Why are they occupied in the first place? Obviously the Arabs are no thrilled that Israel moved in and as the USA is Israel's staunchest allies all sorts of muddying of thinking ensues.

Humans are racists. Not all... but many.

The Palestinians have been getting slowly squeezed out, more noticably in the West Bank because of the settlements. Gaza gets squeezed routinely by the IDF or IAF. Israel is restrained diplomatically for trying to realize their manifest destiny. They also have geopolitical imperatives like increasing the size of their country and having more of a buffer zone between them and their enemies, of which, there are many.

The Palestinian statehood issue is being pressed. I wouldn't like to see the U.N. try and force something upon Israel that it does not and will not accept. They do not want to be at the mercy of people just following orders.

The other major geopolitical flashpoint is Iran, its threatening rhetoric, its military deals with Russia and its nuclear program. Israel has a problem with all three and is not liking the support it is getting from the U.S. with these matters.

The Israeli Prime Minister has repeatedly warned that if Israel has to stand alone to confront its enemies, it will. An unmoored Israel is a dangerous commodity from global order.

LSSBB · Apr 15, 2015

Jango said:
The Palestinians have been getting slowly squeezed out, more noticably in the West Bank because of the settlements. Gaza gets squeezed routinely by the IDF or IAF. Israel is restrained diplomatically for trying to realize their manifest destiny. They also have geopolitical imperatives like increasing the size of their country and having more of a buffer zone between them and their enemies, of which, there are many.

The Palestinian statehood issue is being pressed. I wouldn't like to see the U.N. try and force something upon Israel that it does not and will not accept. They do not want to be at the mercy of people just following orders.

The other major geopolitical flashpoint is Iran, its threatening rhetoric, its military deals with Russia and its nuclear program. Israel has a problem with all three and is not liking the support it is getting from the U.S. with these matters.

The Israeli Prime Minister has repeatedly warned that if Israel has to stand alone to confront its enemies, it will. An unmoored Israel is a dangerous commodity from global order.

there is a thread for this discussion in another sub-forum. believe it or not, it is off topic here.

What is on topic is to ask for harder evidence whether there is an increasing concentration of anti-semitism among Truthers and whether it is statistically significantly different than in the general population, or in any other similar fringe group to the Truthers.

Brainster · Apr 15, 2015

JSanderO said:
Israel is a theocracy pretending to be a democracy and so it shares some attributes with Iran for example.

Is there a better democracy in the region? What attributes do you claim Israel shares with Iran?

Israel has done some very aggressive things and appears to be set on annexing all the occupied territories... Why are they occupied in the first place?

Because they were captured in the 1967 war that Israel's enemies (who did the aggressive things) started.

Obviously the Arabs are no thrilled that Israel moved in and as the USA is Israel's staunchest allies all sorts of muddying of thinking ensues.

Ably demonstrated.

Grizzly Bear · Apr 16, 2015

I believe the 911 concpiracies speak for themselves as crazy without the added innuendo.... personally... i dont associate specific theories with anti semitism, rather i associate a tendency for crazy theories to make people more likely to believe in it. Thats as far as the connection goes.

People who believe in space weapons taking the towers down are probably more inclined to deny the holocaust than some is say, the CD camp.

Playing Games · Apr 18, 2015

chrismohr said:
Do we all agree that opposition to Israeli foreign policy, even thinking Mossad is doing some nasty dark secret things alongside the CIA, is not antiSemitism in and of itself? When I start hearing terms like "the Jews," "the Zionists," etc, I smell an antiSemitic rat. Here in Denver, I have met many people in 911 Truth who are Jewish and rabidly anti-Israeli war policies, and so far only one person in the movement I would consider possibly antiSemitic (only because he picked up on some Holocaust denial ideas and was willing to consider them seriously; he was responsive to my rebuttals however).
I DID get antiSemitic crap in my email box, but haven't seen any of this for about five years. It's there in 911 Truth but it's not endemic, in my experience.
And no, I won't dignify Holocaust denial theories with a debate. They make me puke.

There are quite a few Truthers out there who are anti - Semitic. Don't fool yourself. I've seen quite a bit of it and as being Jewish myself I was personally attacked on many occasions. As for Holocaust deniers they are the worst offender.

Georgio · Aug 11, 2015

In another thread spooky24 wrote this message about William Pepper

spooky24 said:
I dug up one of these A&E lectures-for lack of anything else to call it-in archives.org.

The first thing that struck me was all these guys standing up at a podium always look like they are in the middle of a skull busting-vice gripper of a hangover. Clothes all wrinkled-spikes in the hair along with a swollen grey tongue.
You might expect a Dollar General suit and tie but these guys take it to the limit. I swear one of them had a piece of wire holding his cuff together. Is this some kind of an act? The meek and the masses?

Then to the thunderous ovation from about ten people-they never show the fake audience-the man of the hour William Pepper almost falls on his way to the lectern. The A&E banner is crooked as he mumbles his way through a fifty minute garble of nothingness.

He stumbles from conspiracy to conspiracy-without any mention of explanation or, heaven forbid evidence. He gets the shakes as he struggles to say "and we all know George Bush shot down EWA -excuse me- TWA 800 in order to enrich his fellow---you know it's coming-you have been waiting-now here it is THE JEWS!!!!!!!!!

So this is Architects and Engineers for 9/11 truth.

and was asked to provide a link to the video in question. There was a little further discussion which was correctly criticised as off-topic.

It's on-topic in this thread, so I ask again, spooky24 are you going to substantiate your claim that William Pepper said this, retract the claim or confirm, in line with beachnut's interpretation of your post, that you were imagining what William Pepper could have said rather than reporting what he did say?

Oystein · Nov 4, 2015

I came across this comment on Craig McKee's "Truth and Shadows" blog:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-36893

This was posted by someone using the handle "rediscover911com", so I am guessing there is a close connection to the websize http://rediscover911.com/
Both the comment and the website are overtly anti-semitic and racist. The comment links to videos, pdfs, pamphlets revolving around a work titled “The Zionist Attack on Western Civilization”.

Open links at your own peril.

Now I know practically nothing about that commenter or that website, and do not claim they are representative of anything - neither the TM at large nor that McKee blog.

I will however be watching how other commenters react.
I am not sure, but I think Craig McKee must have approved of that comment manually, as I think that any comment with more than 3 links in it will be queued for moderation.
It seems though that this user has already faced some difficulty with moderation:
https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-35860

Georgio · Nov 4, 2015

Oystein said:
Open links at your own peril.

I advise others to take this warning seriously - I just watched one of the videos linked to and it made me feel quite sick. So very depressing.

beachnut · Nov 4, 2015

Oystein said:
I came across this comment on Craig McKee's "Truth and Shadows" blog:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-36893

This was posted by someone using the handle "rediscover911com", so I am guessing there is a close connection to the websize http://rediscover911.com/
Both the comment and the website are overtly anti-semitic and racist. The comment links to videos, pdfs, pamphlets revolving around a work titled “The Zionist Attack on Western Civilization”.

Open links at your own peril.

Now I know practically nothing about that commenter or that website, and do not claim they are representative of anything - neither the TM at large nor that McKee blog.

I will however be watching how other commenters react.
I am not sure, but I think Craig McKee must have approved of that comment manually, as I think that any comment with more than 3 links in it will be queued for moderation.
It seems though that this user has already faced some difficulty with moderation:
https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-35860

Infinite stupid continues on 911.

Craig McKee, a no plane nut, and an idiot who spreads lies. Typical 911 truth failed logic dolt; looks like a CIT nut on steroids.

Loss Leader · Nov 5, 2015

Actual Jew checking in. In my experience, anti-semites don't need a reason for their hatred. Whatever reason they claim to have is just the latest rationalization of their beliefs.

Oystein · Nov 5, 2015

Oystein said:
I came across this comment on Craig McKee's "Truth and Shadows" blog:

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-36893
...
I will however be watching how other commenters react.
I am not sure, but I think Craig McKee must have approved of that comment manually, as I think that any comment with more than 3 links in it will be queued for moderation.
...

Okay, good, a few comments, including a clear one by McKee himself, have picked up and opposed the neonazi and white supremacist slant:

Craig McKee said:
@rediscover911com: ... I did watch part of one of the videos, a hate-filled, white-supremacist piece called “The Zionist Attack on Western Culture,” and I found it to be truly offensive on a number of levels. While I will have to offer specifics later, I did not want the lack of reaction to the link to be construed as approval.

Not sure they also pick up or oppose the anti-semitic angle - the old "anti-zionism isn't anti-semitism, I don't hate the religion" caveat:

hybridrogue1 said:
This should be fleshed out more – and is in other pages at HR1blog, but here is a start:
https://hybridrogue1.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/the-obscenity-of-zionism

I should also like to explain, as I have done previously in many of my other articles on Zionism; that it has nothing to do with Judaism, ... Even the infamous ‘Protocols’ are likely not written by “Jews” in the religious sense of that term. They were ZIONISTS first and foremost as described above.

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-36895
https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-36903
A believer in the authenticity of "The Protocols", really?? How can one be such a shmock and not be an anti-semite?

beachnut · Nov 6, 2015

http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/un...referrer=https://www.google.com/#.VjyZD7erSJA

Or maybe you've done your homework over the years, refusing to believe the toxic lies spewed by the Jew owned MSM about 9/11 and know for a fact that 9/11 was a False Flag, designed and executed by Israel with help from the White House...
http://careandwashingofthebrain.blogspot.com/2014/06/why-are-911-truthers-labeled-as-anti.html

911 truth has no clue why they might be called anti-semitic, as they expose great ignorance.

Praktik · Nov 7, 2015

I have a few personal connections to this nexus:

Early message board battles on these topics saw my Truther antagonists making reference to "Ashkenezai" jews as being the "real" problem and as a bit of a shield against the anti-semitism charge: "No no, we're not racist, its just the bad ones we worry about!" This message board was connected to a counter-cultural nightlife scene so I *Knew* everyone I was talking to in real life. Was surprising to see super nice hippies spreading this ********.
My sister married a conspiracy theorist. I didn't realize how far she was going into the rabbit hole - I knew she was becoming anti-vaccine and a 9/11 truther - but it was still surprising for me to hear my own sister tell me how she worries "when one group controls something" - yknow, like how the "jews" control the media right??
Coincidentally, this came up a few days ago on a board I'm on, latest doc from Ryan Dawson:

This Ryan Dawson guy is interesting - surprisingly scant mention here on this board I think because he has become most active in the past 5 years or so on Youtube and I find the "weight" of this board's focus on 9/11 and the Truther proselytizers was in the early years, 2003-2009. But seems this guy sits RIGHT at the nexus of anti-semitism and Trutherism, having a history of holocaust denial and repeating tropes like "zionist snakes".

What I fear is that I will have to sit through his documentary because I can't see any rebuttals/debunkings of it - its sitting on another board I post on and I'm starting to feel the Call of Duty here. Gonna have to find a few hours soon to watch, take notes, then laboriously debunk all the crap he can think of in two hours - which I imagine will be a pantsload.

Oystein · Dec 6, 2015

Rudy Dent, the retired FDNY fireman who arrived late to the WTC on 9/11 as a first responder, and then arrived late to the 9/11 TM in 2013 or 2014, to sing the AE songs of Richard Gage, is an all-out Jew hater, anti-semite and paleo-nazi on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/rudy.vulcan

He posted, for example, yesterday:

Rudy Dent said:
This is what Democracy looks like to them!

Lets be careful of this Orwellian misnomer!

Burnde Tares ~ The JEWS did away with OUR Constitutional REPUBLIC and replaced it with their godless "democracy" which is nothing but Communism !!! (...and by the way, the JEWS also tried to destroy every copy of this training manual) !!!!!

United States Army Training Manual No. 2000-25, printed November 30, 1928

DEMOCRACY = Communism/Tyranny/Slavery:

A government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression. Results in mobocracy. ATTITUDE TOWARD PROPERTY IS COMMUNISTIC - NEGATING PROPERTY RIGHTS. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy!

REPUBLIC = Liberty/Freedom:

Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them. Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences. A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass. Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

“ Benjamin Franklin was the gray eminence at the Constitutional Convention in 1787 — wise and famous, but a feeble 81 years old, suffering from gout and kidney stones, and fearful for the future of the nation he had helped found. Once the proceedings were concluded, he was asked what sort of government we would have. His reply was, “A republic, madam, if you can keep it.”

He meant a "Constitutional Republic"!!!

"The objectives of Communism are being steadily advanced ... The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous, he cannot believe it exists." ~ (J. Edgar Hoover, Elks Magazine, August, 1956)

Two days ago:

Rudy Dent said:
His [Hitler's!] message was in his accomplishments, he kicked out the Jews after they declared war on Germany, after they boycotted all German goods and services!

While the Rothschild Jews plotted to starve two thirds of the German people Hitler started bartering for goods and turned Germany around he made it the envy of all of Europe!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC891Xq94U4
[Video title: "ADOLF HITLER: A CHAMPION FOR ALL HUMANITY!"]

Three days ago, this lovely fan poster of his hero Adolf Hitler:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1676965472571346

Four days ago, a very personal rant:

Rudy Dent said:
My personal view.

When I started on Facebook over four years ago, I knew that Facebook is a part of our orchestrated illusion of freedom. That is a common tactic of letting us think we have freedom of speech and expression.

Then carefully marginalizing us into discredited Taboo groups for example, Racist, Bigots, White Nationalist, White Supremacist, Haters, Conspiracy Theorist, 911 Truthers, Revisionist, anti-Semites, Self-Hating Jews etc. Then ridiculing anyone who dares to even look at these labeled groups as shameful disturbed individuals, not to be taken seriously!
...
So in essence we so called Truthers, Conspiracy Theorist, Historical revisionist, Haters and labeled Racist, Bigoted anti-Semites are easy to marginalize and managed.
...
We must identify our enemy and appreciate his cunning and deception! He has been playing Chess on an international Grand Master level ... Gradually I was able to introduce taboo subjects followed with predictable deafening silence; especially anything to do with the Zionist Jews that went against the approved version of their History.
...
I lost over two years of great researched post and over a fifteen hundred Facebook friends when FB took my page down and banned me so that I could not open a new account under my real name Rudy Dent.
...
During this debate over the authenticity of the so called Holocaust , a few of my friends jumped in, respectfully and intellectually kicked his ass and sent him running. These are the kinds of things that Facebook and the main stream cannot allow, to happen because the rule of the Zionist Elites would come to an end!
...

Well yes, Rudy, we are labeling you Racist, Bigot, Conspiracy Theorist, 911 Truther, Revisionist and anti-Semite because that's what you are.

I wonder if Richard Gage is still in bed with Rudy. Or Luke Rudkowski.

Oystein · Dec 6, 2015

Among the 2500+ friends of Rudy Dent, I see a number of Truther names I recognize:

Francis Battaglia
Christopher Bollyn
Helje Kaskel (wife of Christopher Bollyn)
Wayne Coste (former Board member of AE911T)
Ken Doc(kery) (Owner of the largest 9/11-group on FB)
David Fura
Gregg Grider (has initiated a relatively recent petition)
Dan Hennen
Sander Hicks
Barbara Honegger
Erik Lawyer (the "Firefighters for 9/11 T" guy)
Claudio Marty (founder of IamTheFaceOfTruth)
Daniel Noel (AE911Truth's team leader for ... something, I forgot)
Ken O'Keefe
Rebekah Roth
Adam Ruff
Marv Sannes (an AE911T activist from Portland, Oregon)

No doubt there are more, I have only seen a small part of the currently 2549 names.
I estimate that about 15-20% of these friends have the "I am the face of 9/11 Truth" banner in their profile picture, that is several hundreds out of the merely a few thousands sporting this banner. Rudy's holocaust-denying, Jew-hating venom apparently sits well with a significant proportion of the more outspoken fringe that is the TM.

Fred Leucher is a friend, too... (although I haven't verified it's THE Fred Leuchter).

Criteria · Dec 6, 2015

Oystein said:
Among the 2500+ friends of Rudy Dent, I see a number of Truther names I recognize:

Francis Battaglia
Christopher Bollyn
Helje Kaskel (wife of Christopher Bollyn)
Wayne Coste (former Board member of AE911T)
Ken Doc(kery) (Owner of the largest 9/11-group on FB)
David Fura
Gregg Grider (has initiated a relatively recent petition)
Dan Hennen
Sander Hicks
Barbara Honegger
Erik Lawyer (the "Firefighters for 9/11 T" guy)
Claudio Marty (founder of IamTheFaceOfTruth)
Daniel Noel (AE911Truth's team leader for ... something, I forgot)
Ken O'Keefe
Rebekah Roth
Adam Ruff
Marv Sannes (an AE911T activist from Portland, Oregon)

No doubt there are more, I have only seen a small part of the currently 2549 names.
I estimate that about 15-20% of these friends have the "I am the face of 9/11 Truth" banner in their profile picture, that is several hundreds out of the merely a few thousands sporting this banner. Rudy's holocaust-denying, Jew-hating venom apparently sits well with a significant proportion of the more outspoken fringe that is the TM.

Fred Leucher is a friend, too... (although I haven't verified it's THE Fred Leuchter).

Such a fondness for blacklisting people.

catsmate · Dec 6, 2015

Criteria said:
Such a fondness for blacklisting people.

Do you actually know what 'blacklist' means? And how the term bears no resemblance to a list pointing out the links between 911 conspiracy nuts and Jew haters?

Oystein · Dec 6, 2015

Criteria said:
Such a fondness for blacklisting people.

I am glad that you admit the list is black.

JSanderO · Dec 6, 2015

Very disturbing info about this character. Can his friends know about his craziness? If they do that would be very troubling.

Georgio · Dec 6, 2015

JSanderO said:
Very disturbing info about this character. Can his friends know about his craziness? If they do that would be very troubling.

+1

There can be no doubt that Rudy Dent is an anti-Semite.

But in order to know if the following is true:

Oystein said:
Rudy's holocaust-denying, Jew-hating venom apparently sits well with a significant proportion of the more outspoken fringe that is the TM.

We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?

JSanderO · Dec 6, 2015

Georgio said:
We would need to know that the people that it supposedly 'sits well with' are aware of Dent's anti-Semitism. Is being a friend on facebook enough to justify assuming this? That's not a rhetorical question - I'm not on facebook and don't know much about how it works. Does being a person's 'friend' on the site automatically mean that you are informed of what they post there?

Depends on whether you bother to visit and read the page regularly.. and most people probably don't and so they are probably not aware... They should be!

Is there guilt by mere association on FB? Dunno.... but it makes for strange bed fellows.

Split Thread the TM and anti-semitism

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