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Sexual misconduct allegations against Radford, Shermer, et al. Part 2

Alison's timeline is correct. Approximately 30 minutes after I took her back to her room, she asked to be taken to the condo. She was having trouble walking to the car which was in the back valet area. Security noticed this, and stopped us, and then offered a wheelchair to help her get to the car. We accepted. I took her to the condo, stayed for a while and then returned to the Flamingo to get ready for the next day of TAM.

I have no way of knowing what went on behind closed doors, but I do know that Alison was very upset, and very drunk. And what she told me that night matches what she's saying now.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
Alison's timeline is correct. Approximately 30 minutes after I took her back to her room, she asked to be taken to the condo. She was having trouble walking to the car which was in the back valet area. Security noticed this, and stopped us, and then offered a wheelchair to help her get to the car. We accepted. I took her to the condo, stayed for a while and then returned to the Flamingo to get ready for the next day of TAM.

I have no way of knowing what went on behind closed doors, but I do know that Alison was very upset, and very drunk. And what she told me that night matches what she's saying now.
Click to expand...

Finally! Awesome!

What were the vicious rumours about Smith that Shermer looked into? (Or if you don't want to spread them further, did they have to do with Shermer or something unrelated?)

Where did you find her in the hotel and how long did it take? Was she aware of what hotel she was in or did she ask you?

That should about clear up my questions.
 
qayak said:
Finally! Awesome!

What were the vicious rumours about Smith that Shermer looked into? (Or if you don't want to spread them further, did they have to do with Shermer or something unrelated?)

Where did you find her in the hotel and how long did it take? Was she aware of what hotel she was in or did she ask you?

That should about clear up my questions.
Click to expand...

I had heard no "vicious rumors" from anyone other than Shermer. The rumor he was referring to was that they had had sex that night, and he denied it.

She called me from the elevator. I asked her where she was, and she said she didn't know. I believe I asked her to go to the bottom floor and tell me what she saw. When she did, I knew where she was, and I went and retrieved her.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
I had heard no "vicious rumors" from anyone other than Shermer. The rumor he was referring to was that they had had sex that night, and he denied it.

She called me from the elevator. I asked her where she was, and she said she didn't know. I believe I asked her to go to the bottom floor and tell me what she saw. When she did, I knew where she was, and I went and retrieved her.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this clears a lot of things up.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
I had heard no "vicious rumors" from anyone other than Shermer. The rumor he was referring to was that they had had sex that night, and he denied it.

She called me from the elevator. I asked her where she was, and she said she didn't know. I believe I asked her to go to the bottom floor and tell me what she saw. When she did, I knew where she was, and I went and retrieved her.
Click to expand...

I thank you for showing up and pretty much settling that discussion.
I fear we'll have to go back to investigating yetis now...
 
Jeff Wagg said:
I had heard no "vicious rumors" from anyone other than Shermer. The rumor he was referring to was that they had had sex that night, and he denied it.

She called me from the elevator. I asked her where she was, and she said she didn't know. I believe I asked her to go to the bottom floor and tell me what she saw. When she did, I knew where she was, and I went and retrieved her.
Click to expand...

Two more questions: Did she tell you at that time that Shermer raped her and did you ask Shermer about that or something more to the effect "Hey, there's a rumour going around that you bedded Alison Smith"?

A witness can clear so much up so quickly, can't they? (Ooooops, I guess that's a third question.)
 
qayak said:
Two more questions: Did she tell you at that time that Shermer raped her and did you ask Shermer about that or something more to the effect "Hey, there's a rumour going around that you bedded Alison Smith"?

A witness can clear so much up so quickly, can't they? (Ooooops, I guess that's a third question.)
Click to expand...

I didn't ask Shermer anything. He called me. As I said earlier, Alison's story has not changed.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
I didn't ask Shermer anything. He called me. As I said earlier, Alison's story has not changed.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Did she mention to you at the time that he had raped her and that's why she wanted to go to the condo?
 
Oh, it's an interesting topic and I'm sure there is a lot of nuance that could be found. When ever you get a topic like this where there is a strong moral imperative felt by participants in a debate, you'll get people wanting to argue that they lack nuance, or are ignoring alternative explanations for things.
 
zooterkin said:
Does that mean you were the person from JREF that she told about it, or was there someone else as well?
Click to expand...

I know the answer to that, obviously, but this is Alison's story, not mine. My only role here is to say that thus far, she has told the truth.
 
Jeff Wagg said:
Alison's timeline is correct. Approximately 30 minutes after I took her back to her room, she asked to be taken to the condo. She was having trouble walking to the car which was in the back valet area. Security noticed this, and stopped us, and then offered a wheelchair to help her get to the car. We accepted. I took her to the condo, stayed for a while and then returned to the Flamingo to get ready for the next day of TAM.

I have no way of knowing what went on behind closed doors, but I do know that Alison was very upset, and very drunk. And what she told me that night matches what she's saying now.
Click to expand...

And there we go. Between this statement and Shermer's changing story, I think it would take quite a lot of good evidence to the contrary to persuade me that Smith's story is not true.
 
Jeff and Alison, thanks so much for setting the record straight. My respect for the two of you is ever growing.
 
My question now is: If Smith was an employee and you her supervisor, or even just a JREF representative, did you report this to your superior? I don't see at this point the that it was up to Smith to report to police, you and the JREF, had a responsibility to protect your employee. If Smith did not want to press charges that is something that would have been between her and the DA. To cover the JREF's employer, and moral obligation, it should have been reported.
 
TubbaBlubba said:
Jeff and Alison, thanks so much for setting the record straight. My respect for the two of you is ever growing.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much respect I would have for a man who, according to his account, knew that very night his girlfriend had been raped and didn't call the police and then continued a professional relationship with the rapist.

Those of us who have had friends raped and, in my case, had a friend shot to death by her husband when she attempted to leave him and whose past violent behavior was not brought to light, wonder about why anyone would allow a rapist/abuser to walk free and how that puts other, equally innocent parties in danger.

Crimes of this type have with them a social responsibility to be reported and continuing an amicable relations with a rapist or abuser is utterly baffling and irresponsible.

I'm not even asking for an explanation of why the crime was not reported and why the criminal was allowed to walk free, why the statue of limitations was allowed to expire and why people so utterly shocked now proceeded with business as usual then.

It's appalling.
 
qayak said:
My question now is: If Smith was an employee and you her supervisor, or even just a JREF representative, did you report this to your superior? I don't see at this point the that it was up to Smith to report to police, you and the JREF, had a responsibility to protect your employee. If Smith did not want to press charges that is something that would have been between her and the DA. To cover the JREF's employer, and moral obligation, it should have been reported.
Click to expand...

So very much this. There is absolutely no excuse for this sort of thing to be swept under the rug. I hope Jeff understands exactly what he is taking responsibility for here. "Bravery" indeed.
 
SinisterBen said:
So JREF invites 'rapists' to their conventions? Over and over again? And you guys are applauding? Wow.
Click to expand...

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this photo:

AqqltTv.jpg


This was apparently posted two months after the TAM in question where the rape occurred. In it we have the rapist, the rape victim talking about having a "lovely portion" with the rapist and the victim's boyfriend who knew she was raped having a smile with both.

Seriously, what sort of moral universe do these people exist in?
 
SinisterBen said:
So JREF invites 'rapists' to their conventions? Over and over again? And you guys are applauding? Wow.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is seriously disturbing information. I was holding off making judgement on this one but to know that someone who actually worked for JREF knew that Shermer was a rapist and hushed it up for years is really appalling. :mad:
 
Mykeru said:
I'm not sure how much respect I would have for a man who, according to his account, knew that very night his girlfriend had been raped and didn't call the police and then continued a professional relationship with the rapist.
Click to expand...

Or at the very least to a hospital. :(
 
qayak said:
My question now is: If Smith was an employee and you her supervisor, or even just a JREF representative, did you report this to your superior? I don't see at this point the that it was up to Smith to report to police, you and the JREF, had a responsibility to protect your employee. If Smith did not want to press charges that is something that would have been between her and the DA. To cover the JREF's employer, and moral obligation, it should have been reported.
Click to expand...

Mykeru said:
I'm not sure how much respect I would have for a man who, according to his account, knew that very night his girlfriend had been raped and didn't call the police and then continued a professional relationship with the rapist.

Those of us who have had friends raped and, in my case, had a friend shot to death by her husband when she attempted to leave him and whose past violent behavior was not brought to light, wonder about why anyone would allow a rapist/abuser to walk free and how that puts other, equally innocent parties in danger.

Crimes of this type have with them a social responsibility to be reported and continuing an amicable relations with a rapist or abuser is utterly baffling and irresponsible.

I'm not even asking for an explanation of why the crime was not reported and why the criminal was allowed to walk free, why the statue of limitations was allowed to expire and why people so utterly shocked now proceeded with business as usual then.

It's appalling.
Click to expand...

SinisterBen said:
So JREF invites 'rapists' to their conventions? Over and over again? And you guys are applauding? Wow.
Click to expand...

Mykeru said:
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this photo:



This was apparently posted two months after the TAM in question where the rape occurred. In it we have the rapist, the rape victim talking about having a "lovely portion" with the rapist and the victim's boyfriend who knew she was raped having a smile with both.

Seriously, what sort of moral universe do these people exist in?
Click to expand...

DeadEyedSuburbanite said:
Yeah this is seriously disturbing information. I was holding off making judgement on this one but to know that someone who actually worked for JREF knew that Shermer was a rapist and hushed it up for years is really appalling. :mad:
Click to expand...




So, any chance we could see some of this outrage directed, ya know, at the rapist?
 
SinisterBen said:
Is he here? No. Kinda futile to talk to him here.
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But critiquing actions taken years ago that cannot be undone now is useful?


At least voicing disapproval of Shermer here provides some support to those who want him dis-invited from events like TAM going forward from this point.
 
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